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+--- Thread: Bonne Terra mine (/showthread.php?tid=404)
Bonne Terra mine - WIdiver_Paul - 08-15-2004
Hey all,
the Hoofer's Club is considering scheduling a trip to Bonne Terra Mine in Missouri. I am asking for your frank and honest opinon on BT....
Re:Bonne Terra mine - Bubblemaker - 08-15-2004
Its a nice place to dive ONCE. Since its privately owned your forced to follow there rules. So its a hold your hand dont do that dont do this kind of dive. I would recomend it to anyone but I think its not worth a 2nd trip. Meaning been there done that kinda dive.
K
Re:Bonne Terra mine - mrclean - 09-03-2004
I'm going to Bonne Terre mine with Wazee Sports Oct. 30/31. We'll be doing 4 dives. I'll post my comments when I get back. Plenty of spots left if anybody has any interest in going; just contact Keith at Wazee Sports with questions.
Andy
Re:Bonne Terra mine - WIdiver_Paul - 09-04-2004
I came across this review on Cavediver.net:
and someone in my club disputed whether it was accurate so I contacted the author and he and one of the guys in the review wrote me back and sent some more pictures. I thought that was pretty nice.
Here's Alan's comments:
Paul,
Well, Iâm sorry to say that every word in my trip report is true. In fact, the article is just a cleaned-up version of my own dive log narrative. I am sending pictures of myself beside the flag on the old mine elevator structure wearing my doubles (a distinct location unique to the mine), and our dive guide doing the olâ âOpen Water Stand-Upâ at 70â and well within the overhead. They should provide proof for those who doubt the validity of the report.
We were extremely disappointed in the way the outfit was run and the lack of safety measures and procedures, which is really sad since the site itself is truly a wonder to behold. Some of the staff were actually trying to be helpful and professional, but they just didnât seem to know any better than to just keep doing what they had always done and been instructed by the owners to do. The mine is separated out into âtrailsâ, with trail 1 being the most basic and having the least amount of overhead. But the trails quickly get more advanced and by the time you get to trail 3 or 4, about a third of the entire dive is in true overhead. There are no lines and the only dive lights allowed are the ones carried by the guide, who is outfitted with plain OW gear (single tank, single reg, no redundant air supply, no backup lights that I could see, and so on). I also heard from other sources (divers living in the area) that both PADI and NAUI have dropped their affiliations with them because they continue to take OW divers into the overhead environments. They are with SSI now but I donât know how long that will last either if they ever find out where all those dives are actually going. There was a âsafety diverâ somewhere that was apparently following us at a distance, but as far as I could tell his light was never on and I didnât even see him during the dive. Neither the guide nor the safety diver ever noticed that my buddy was having any trouble.
Apparently they now allow you to carry a small âbackup-sizedâ light, but we didnât know it at the time because their website still said âNO LIGHTSâ. We called ahead before going to see if I could dive with Nitrox in my own doubles since they didnât have anything available on site other than air. They said it would be ok as long as I didnât mind carrying them in and out of the mine myself and was extra careful about not dropping them in the process, but I was assured there would be no discount for not using their tanks and air. I wish I had asked about the lights then, but I just assumed it was still a no-no. Their website is in serious need of being updated to reflect the rules changes.
I am not trying to influence anyone into not going, but rather to let people know what to expect if they do. The first time I went I didnât know any better, but several years had passed since then and when I dove it after getting cave trained I had a whole new perspective. But if you DO go, just be aware that your safety will be almost entirely dependant on a guide who is totally ignorant about overhead diving procedures and is leading you through an overhead environment by memory alone. I hope this helps and good luck in whatever you guys decide to do!
Alan
And here's comments from Andrew Rowley:
Hi there Paul,
I guess if I did not personally know Alan I would see your point. However, I consider him a friend, fellow diver, and gear head like myself. Not to mention he his as honest as you can get.
The story that he wrote up was actually more of an "after action account." Everyone wanted to hear what he had to say and the result was an article at Overhead times. Please keep in mind the audience and you know that we are a critical bunch. I am sure that Bonne Terre handles hundreds of guests per year; however I have never seen an accounting for problems or the groups rescue training record.
When I talked to Alan he commented that he cleared his doubles with the dive shop before the trip, and with their approval he brought them along. Watch out for those doubles posing as a rebreather
.I can attest to not only what he said was correct but other people have had similar events at this facility. Recreational tour guides are diving in overhead environments then you are bound to have a few concerns.
Also if possible have a scouting trip before taking paying guests. Take a couple of staff members (Divemaster, instructors, or tech divers) and go dive the site. I have been known to call 1st trip like this an "Adventure trip" were there are going to be surprises and the "schedule may change slightly."
I can understand your concern and thoughts. I would throw out your question on the cavediver.net web page and see what comes back; if nothing else you have the groups opinion. Ask specific questions, I think that helps.
Plus, if you making the scouting trip or full trip write up a report yourself and we will add it to Overhead times or Cave diver page. The more information the better and I am all for change.
Finally, please remember that Bonne Terre is an operating site and they have tons of tourists so they are doing something's right. If nothing else the complainants from cave divers are the same. They are not friendly or courteous; it's their way or the highway. Something very important to stress to "high maintenance" guests. They are operating a recreational site that has technical elements in it. You know that drives Technical divers up the wall. Plus, they do not offer a technical section to cave divers or overhead divers so again they feel left out. Plus, it seems the staff lacks something in diver education and edict. So trip leader be aware, and know your guests well.
If I can help please feel free to yell.
Regards, Andrew
Andrew Rowley
arowley@ipstx.com