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+--- Thread: Dive Charters (/showthread.php?tid=934)
Dive Charters - drifter1430 - 03-22-2006
I was just reading an article about a diver dying on a dive. It was a very old article. The divers family was trying to sue the charter operator saying that even though the diver had an advanced open water certification, he should have checked to see that the diver was experienced enough to dive the wreck he was on. I guess my question is, Is a charter captain basically a bus driver bringing divers to a wreck, or is he responsible for all that happens in the water too?
Re: Dive Charters - matt t. - 03-22-2006
This should be interesting
. I'll put my $.02 in later.
Re: Dive Charters - Rik - 03-22-2006
Her's my nickles worth:
Is a charter captain basically a bus driver bringing divers to a wreck, or is he responsible for all that happens in the water too? My Simple Answer:Â -Yes?-
Yes he is a "Bus Driver"
The "Bus Driver" should provide safe & responsible transport for his charges!
Yes, The Charter Captain is Responsible for his charges.
The real Question is to what degree's and extent is he responsible for others actions?
Each day and each circumstance is different:
Each situation is as the same as the waves in the waters we dive, similar at times but each slightly different!
In EVERY situation [glow=red,2,300]You and I. Are responsible for our own situations![/glow]
Others and circumstances may affect our situations but barring others gross negligence "We Are The One's Responsible"!
On the same thought pattern I contend, [glow=red,2,300]There Is No Such Thing As "An Accident" ![/glow]Someone or something failed to perform or meet needed expectations!
Law suits can be filed for D#mn near any reason & that is not totally bad!
Responsible judges & people will prevail with responsible a reasonable decisions!
Sometimes life just sucks and we have to deal with it!
    8)
      RikO+<
Re: Dive Charters - dean810 - 03-23-2006
I think the charter's responsibily is to make sure the divers know what type of diving they can expect, and then to be aware of the cert level of the divers. This is simply responsible behavior. Then, yes, if is the responisiblity of the diver to dive within their limits and dive responsibly themselves.
If I was a charter captain, I certainly wouldn't want to have people getting hurt on one of my trips. I would want to be resonably comfortable with the people I let into the water.
Re: Dive Charters - scubagrrl - 03-30-2006
My 2 cents...I'm not really sure hwo culpable the captain of the boat can be. I've got an Advanced Open Water certification, but I've never dove a wreck in MI. The captain can certainly ask me about my experience, and provided I'm honest when replying, give suggestions on how to dive it safely, but unless he's actually in the water with me babysitting, its my responsibility not to do something stupid.
Where's this article? What was this guys dive buddy doing?Re: Dive Charters - Rik - 03-30-2006
Im not really sure how capable the captain of the boat can be[/i]
Good NewsFor Us: Most of The Captains For Charter Diving In Milwaukee Have More Dive Experience Than Most Of Us Will Ever Have!
I'm Talking Years More!
Any Time and Any where you dive:
 Talk to the Captains & Crew while your boarding, if your not comfortable Don't go!
If you "Go" you don't have to dive unless you want too!
It has been my experienc in Milwaukee, that the Dive Captains Not Only Know their Boat, They Know Their Business!
My first couple of dive's they hooked me up with either instructors or Excellent Divers willing to not only "Baby Sit" but share their knowledge!
   Â
        Rik O+<
Re: Dive Charters - scubagrrl - 03-30-2006
Heh, I realize I just meant to say "culpable" not capable! LOL
Re: Dive Charters - Chris H - 03-30-2006
You said culpable the first time too...
Re: Dive Charters - DiveCaptDean - 03-31-2006
Neat topic!!!!! I am curious to see the post regarding this one.....
i have yet to find any guidelines on this one but..i feel the following:
I think that Captains are responsible for getting a general overview of each divers qualifications...and experiences..either by checking log books or by having a conversation with that person to find out where they have dove..etc...We have no choice but to take them at their word as we do not have the resposibility to verify that what they say is true...How could we...we are not offering schooling, nor are we offering a dive guide..at least not usually.... locally...C cards are verified...but what do they really mean..???
I think that we have a resposibility to get the divers to and from the dive site as safetly as possible..we have a resposibility to be prepared in the event that there is an accident..whether it require a first aid kit or a oxygen bottle....we have a responsibilty to keep an eye on things like weather..so to not put people in an environment that would make for a bad dive ( ie waves..etc)..also think that we have a responsibility to help educate those divers that require a little guidance when diving the big lake...(ie equipment suitability and exposure protection suitability.....
I dont think that we should be responsible for what happens under water...ie someone doesnt maintain their equipment and a free flow happens..the diver pannicks and bolts for the surface...a diver fails to monitor their air supply and bolts to the surface....gets bent...etc..the best that i can do in this situation is get them aboard and on oxygen..and monitor..and suggest to them that no matter what i would like to give them a ride to the hospital for treatment...or the best i can do is tell someone that doesnt have proper training or equipment to stay out of the wreck..if they choose to go in..what can i do...
Those of you that have dove with me..think back..I had either been in the water with you at one time....know someone personally that had been in the water with you...had a good discussion with you regarding your experience..or had an instructor on the boat that was diving with you..for your first dives on the lake.....I think we all try to make a positive and safe experience for the divers....the last thing we want is for someone to not make it back from a trip....not only woud this be crushing on our spirit, but not real good for business....the fact is..no matter what....an accident can happen at any time...the best we can do ......is our best.
i look forward to the future posts
Deano
Re: Dive Charters - scubert - 03-31-2006
here are my $0.02,
the boat captain IS a bus driver, with just a few asterisks attached.
It is the Capt's job to get you to the wreck and back, to keep a well serviced boat, to respond to problems on the surface, and to not run me over with the boat. All the basic things a bus driver would do on land.
Where their work now requires more than this, it is primarily the fault of divers and their overly litigious relatives.
When a diver dies because they weren't qualified for a dive, whose fault is it. THE DIVERS!
Where the hell is the personal responsibility in this world when someone can make their own decisions, based on their training and the plentiful information about nearly ALL wrecks (or other dives) and when they kill themselves the DRIVER of the TRANSPORT is held responsible??
Would this be the case if I took a cab to a bridge and base-jumped off of it, killing myself in the process? What about if the cab was a charter bus? NO! Unless the driver ran me over
It would be a different story if dive boat captains were actively recruiting divers for dives. Trying to "sell up" a dive to an unqualified individual. Then they might have some culpability, as it would then be partly their responsibility to make sure the "buyer" could use their "product". But even then the DIVER still should be capable enough to access their personal situation and skills to determine final suitability of a dive.
If you are unable to make the right decision on whether or not to dive a certain site, you are probably unqualified to dive it.
BECAUSE of divers who overestimate their personal abilities, or who simply LIE to get on a charter, captains are now forced to do the things Deano listed in his post.
1) YOU are responsible for YOU.
2) See #1.