Prin Willem V video

[DiveCaptDean]

I wont assume that i know what there certification level is, BUT i think its evident...they didnt have anything resembling the correct gear...they were on 80's..single..they did not have a bottle elsewhere..someone that goes to 150plus on an 80 doesnt have an extra bottle..they have already proven that they dont know better..........THUS..they dont have the education either......YES some people have spent alot of time deeper than recreational limits on a single 80..some have thousands of dives and dont have any issues with doing this.....ITS STILL WRONG AND THEY WONT EVER DIVE FROM A BOAT THAT I RUN.....

I too love the desire to make video and show the world..and for the most part..youtube isnt going to have a bunch ofcritical divers looking at the video..you basic non diver or refcreational diver doesnt even know where they were or how deep they were so its kind of harmless...but for those that do know........well........not cool

Im grouchy
Deano

[Dewit2it]

Based on what you see in the other videos, why?
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At 100' a AL80 will give me around 30 min to the 500 psi mark.  So to do deco at 100' I would have to stage another bottle/s or run with twins.  At 160', gas useage would be even faster.       

[Chris H]

Based on what you see in the other videos, why?
[/quote]

At 100' a AL80 will give me around 30 min to the 500 psi mark.  So to do deco at 100' I would have to stage another bottle/s or run with twins.  At 160', gas useage would be even faster.       
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I'm not disagreeing that they should have more gas,  I just doubt they did.  Perhaps the divers in the video could chime in and tell us we are all wrong and they had lots of redundancy and a really good dive plan.

Until then, what does your average dive computer give for ND limit at 160?  I'm guessing around 4-6 minutes.  Now, assuming they did a "deco" dive, because their computers told them to, and wanted to take them all the way back to 20ft without any additional stops before then (the classic bend and fix..get the bubbles really big, then stop to try to get them out before surfacing), you could potentially hang out at 20ft for your stop and get back on the boat with a safe and comfortable 200-300psi in that single tank that you and your buddy are counting on to get out of the water.  Heck, maybe they had a Spare Air :

Again, I hope we are all very wrong, I just don't see anything in the videos to ass-u-me anything else.

[schultz]

I don't mean to step on any toes and I'm not condoning the actions of the divers in these videos, but....

Isn't this the same type of argument one can make for helmets and those who ride motorcycles? Technically it is safer to use a helmet, but people choose not to. Likewise these divers choose to run the risks of deep diving without redundancy.

just my $.02....

[Vtach]

Your input is very welcome schultz.  I understand your point about helmets and motorcycles, but I don't think the analogy quite fits the circumstances (at least as far as my point is concerned).  In recreational scuba classes (OW, AOW) it is expressed and generally understood that overhead environments and depths beyond 130 feet require training that is beyond the recreational level.  The videos linked show divers with recreational equipment that are engaging in "beyond recreational" diving.  The video is somewhat educational or at least documentary in its portrayal of the history of the wrecks and how they appear at this time.  My point about this analogy is that making a choice about whether or not to wear a helmet is far different than making a video that appears to endorse not wearing a helmet.  There is a big difference between the classroom and the real world and not everything that is taught in class is absolutely essential in the real world but to make this type of diving seem to be no big deal is irresponsible.  I felt it necessary to address this rather than perpetuating the endorsement by saying "nice video".  I guess I hope that new divers will realize that this is not the standard for "beyond recreational" diving and follow proper standards if they are interested in this sort of thing.

In looking at the big picture and how our government seems to work, when people are dying because of their own stupidity or the stupidity of someone involved, people start to scream and want the goverment to make another law to save us from ourselves.  That is the last thing we need in this sport....

This is a good discussion, any one else have input?

[schultz]

Ah, but Hollywood is constantly making videos where people are not wearing helmets - both in the cinema and on television. Does that mean Hollywood endorses not being safer by not wearing a helmet? I doubt it. My point isn't about the video, although you raise a good point by suggesting others who watch this video may think that diving wrecks without redundancy is the norm. Maybe I shouldn't have gotten all my wreck training by watching Jessica Alba in the movie "Into the Blue." 

My point is about the discussion of safety. Ultimately it is up to the person to determine what is safe, within their limits, and within the abilities. I would argue that the Willem video still shows wreck diving within recreational limits, especially since there are wreck specialties with PADI. But I would maintain that even these divers are not practicing what is taught in that class.

Knowing what I know now, would I do the Rouse Simons on a single 80? No. Can it be done? Yes. Is it risky? Yes. Is it illegal? No.

I fully agree with your assessment that more government involvement is a bad idea. Nontheless, stuff like this will continue, and the only way it will stop is by having people become more educated about these matters. Call me a cynic, but I don't think that will ever happen in our current society where what is on TV and Youtube superscedes actual education and research.

[Vtach]

HMMMM Jessica Alba........ >

Hollywood is about making big money through entertainment and I am pretty confident that they give 2 shits about responsibility unless it was making them more money.  I agree with you about the individuals.  If they want to get out and dive to 200 feet on a 40 and a Spare Air, more power to them.  I would just hope that they wouldn't put out a video that endorses that sort of thing for everyone else.

I know that people will continue with this type of thing, especially with YouTube being so big and everyone wanting their 15 minutes.  I just thought I would take the time to express my opinion and would hope it helps someone to realize that this is not the standard way to safely complete these types of dives.

Hmmm...we could sell a TV show about careless divers diving with GI3 wannabe's....  Reality TV at its finest!!!
I could just imagine what Trey would name it.....

[Omicron]

Hey, I'm all for it.  Let 'em go OOA on the wreck, I'll volunteer for a recovery dive - I could use the 80's for stage bottles  >

[schultz]

Would we have a leader board like "Deadliest Catch?" I hope to god you're not suggesting the GI3 would be the next Sig Hanson... I like Sig.

[Vtach]

No I mean GI3 wannabe's.  You know kool aid drinkers, the ones who want to be hardcore DIR and like to sling words without really understanding what they spew.  You put those together with "hard core" divers who just don't have a clue period and VOILA...GOOD TV!!!