STAs and What size wing for BP?

[dfreeman]

I have the same wing as Jason and I am a little bit bigger build. I think that Jason is right about going with a 30 lb lift.

Went diving this weekend in Lake Wazee and Wolf River. I was on 4 dives using my Bare TriLam ATR and went down to a depth of 144 feet. Did not use the wings at all. Nice to have when you need them though.

Doug

[divbum]

Either the 27lbs Pioneer or 30lbs Eclipse is more then suffiecnt for your needs. Your drysuit will offset some bouyancy and you can decide how to use it. I use my wing for bouyancy and my suit for warmth and maintian enough air to be comfortable but snug, less shifting of air, easier to control position in water. con- 2 items to vent on ascent. Suit only is typicaly taught... Larger volume of air to shift, more likely to end up feet up, more often feeling unsteady in water. I assume oxycheq has a single tank wing, dive rite has one to. For the single tank a completely connect wing seems to function better (oval).
Good luck, and have fun diving.

[fishchaser]

Sorry to beat a dead horse...but I visited an LDS today. Of course he doesn't sell wings, so he lead me to something he does sell...a Genesis Recon, with a 75 pound bag! He claims that if I get only a 30-ish pound lift whatever, that I will have severe problems with lift at depth (100') due wet/drysuit compression, losing that bouyancy, especially if I dive with around 30# of lead (which I believe I would, as he does, and I used 35# with 7mm wet). He claims that with that much lead, the 30-35# bag won't cut it. That sounds contrary to everything I've heard/read so far, including from the wing manufacturers. What gives? (And no, I don't think he was in it strictly for the sale...I think he really believed that you need no less than 45# of lift, sale or not.)

[dfreeman]

This has not been my experience and I was at 100 feet in a dry suit on Sunday.

Doug

[divbum]

I won't beat a dead horse so here is my last reply. When can you dive? Seeing is believing right? I can give you a group of divers with over 500 dives wearing a halcyon 27 Lbs and 30 Lbs. bladders in drysuits locally (no 7 mils locally but I bet it would work) that dive large steel cylinders, argon bottles, and a 40cuft deco bottle, without a problem. And 2 use the 18lbs wing (purchased before it was discontinued). So I’m am schedule to dive the Lender Saturday and Sunday depending weather. Sunday is booked, can you be on the boat Saturday or if the weather is bad are you interested in Red Granite if it is not iced over?
I really don't care who or where you choose to buy a wing from, but I cannot argue of this book reads that or this and in theory, when practical experience is the basis for every answer I have given. I’ll just show you the difference if you can make the time. PM, email or call if you want to go dive.

[jasondbaker]

I've never been diving with someone using more than a 45# wing and single tank. I dive a 36# wing and it is more than plenty when diving wet or dry below 100ft. I probably would have bought a 27# wing if I knew what I know now.

If someone needs a 75# wing at 100ft with a single tank it tells me they have a serious, potentially life-threatening, overweighting problem. Imagine if that wing blew at 100ft. See you at the bottom.

[LKunze]

No doubt, I totally agree. I dive the same wing as Jason (36 pound wing) and have always had more than enough lift with it diving 7 mil wet or with my drysuit and steel tanks. I can stay afloat at the surface at the start of the dive without much air in the wing at all.

[fishchaser]

Cool. Thanks for the replies guys. It seems like this LDS guy (shop owner and instructor) is extremely helpful but just plain wrong here. I truely believe this guy wasn't trying to sell me something, and that he just believes you need that big of a bag. Very concerning. He asked his partner if they've ever sold a 45# version of the Recon, and the reply was "not a single one...all 75#". When I asked him to explain it in detail, he seemed to think that the 35# of lead was to offset 35# of bouyancy of the air in the suit, and when compressed at depth, you'd have zero drysuit bouyancy and 35# of lead for the wing to lift. I tried to argue that only a portion of the lead was for the airsuit buoyancy, and the rest was for the body (fat and air), which does not disappear at depth. He didn't agree.

I’ll just show you the difference if you can make the time. PM, email or call if you want to go dive.

I'd love to...but I'm currently not equipped. Drysuit was shipped yesterday (and still need drysuit class) and my purpose of this thread was to determine which wing I should buy. I'm still looking for a 30-ish pound wing & BP, so back to ebay and the forum for sale areas. Worst case, come spring, I'll buy new.

Thanks again for tolerating my newbie questions...but we gotta learn from somewhere, and what better place than from some locals, and not to be steered wrong by a misinformed LDS.

[Omicron]

We're glad to help. Most of us have done the "buy first set of gear....then the second set of good gear" routine and enjoy helping people in the right direction the first time

[jasondbaker]

Your LDS is just passing on the incorrect advice he was probably taught. Check out the following diving physics refresher page:



Let's think about it logically.

You gear up, get in the water, and what happens? If you are properly weighted you float. Not by much, but you are floating at eye level. You have maybe a couple pounds of positive bouyancy which is mostly supported by the air in your lungs.

So you let out the air in your lungs, relax and slowly decend to 15ft. Now you are floating around like an astronaut. Guess what, you are virtually weightless with zero bouyancy. At this point you don't even need a wing.

Next you start slowly decending to -100ft. As you decend the gas in your wing is compressing, gas in your drysuit is compressing, and air bubbles in your wetsuit are compressing. Many other objects are not compressing -- your tank, your head and body, and other gear. These objects still take up volumn, displace water, and therefore contribute to positive bouyancy.

At -100ft you add some gas to your wing, creating more volumn, to make up some of the bouyancy you lost on the way down.

Imagine if you were at -100ft and had to fill a 75# wing to stay neutral. You would have to be grossly overweighted at the beginning (surface) of the dive to need that much of a bouyancy correction. I'd love to see someone take the time to do the math.