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**Chris H** · 05-08-2003, 07:49 PM,

Jon,
I haven't dumped the ankle weights. Why would this be easier to do with Jet Fins or Turtle Fins? The density/negative bouyancy of the rubber?

Although my experience has been somewhat limited with students, OW students generally want to flutter kick. Most of them were college students who fit the "I may dive once a year category but I'll get a phy ed credit for this." category. I certainly don't disagree with you, but I doubt that most of them could have managed a compass heading AND a frog kick. Wink

Vtach · 05-08-2003, 08:11 PM,

The first dive with the Turtle fins I had ankle weights on and my trim seemed pretty good. This last dive I lent my ankle weights to a friend trying out a drysuit he may buy. I felt like an absolute cluster in the water without them (OK Chris, now its your turn to dig on me). If I frog kicked or modified flutter with my knees bent to 90 degs I was OK. But as soon as I tried anything less than a 90 angle at the knees it was head down trim. I really don't mind ankle weights and after the last dive I will probably still use them. It is nice to know that they are not a necessity anymore though.

scubert · 05-08-2003, 09:36 PM,

I really recommend Halcyon's Gaiters. They allow you to get the lead off of your legs, but still make sure the air doesn't get into your ankle area. I can go almost head down and still have no problem getting back to normal position.

***jasondbaker*** · 05-08-2003, 11:32 PM,

Is a head down trim a bad position to be in? I usually try to keep this type of profile to minimize kicking up the bottom. I haven't felt the need for ankle weights or gaiters yet. I dive my dry suit with a squeeze and use the wing for bouyancy control.

FreediveWI · 05-09-2003, 06:25 AM,

The density of the fins allow you to dump the ankle weights. DIR divers like this because it is one less thing to break, and buy. Big Grin

All of the good instructors that I know will teach flutter, dolphin and frog kick in an entry level class. In an advanced class they will really "harp" on the anti-silting kicks that divers should have mastered to dive around here. By time a student reaches a wreck diving class the frog kick needs to be second nature.

Jon

Vtach · 05-09-2003, 07:47 AM,

I have gaiters that are built into my suit which work quite well. Its not really an air trap problem so I don't end up with balloon feet;D. It is more than the beneficial "slight downward trim" though. I think that I might have to get out and play around with my weight amounts a bit. I might be a bit overweighted yet. But in general, I like the Turtle fins and with some fine tuning and practice it should all come together. Looking forward to using the "homegrown" spring straps this weekend, too bad the weather is gonna be crappy. I'll be more dry below the water than above it ;D.

scubert · 05-09-2003, 10:05 AM,

Slightly head down is normal for reduced silting, etc. I was talking about head straight down, as if entering a tight hold or pass-thru on a wreck. I also only use enough air in the drysuit to prevent the cold pressing in too much. Luckily, I have my weighting to the point where that is about all the lift I need as well (this varies a bit with which tank I'm using though).

05-13-2003, 07:29 PM,

vtach...

Those spring straps you had set up on your fins last weekend looked great...I'm gonna have to rig me a set of those Smile

I didn't really look at all, but did you ditch your ankle weights w/ the turtles? It seems like the Turtle fins aren't as heavy as the Jetfins...I've got a pair of my dad's old jets sitting in my closet and they seem really heavy and stiff..

scubert · 05-13-2003, 07:48 PM,

Turtles are lighter than the new jetfins. Jetfin's rubber compound was re-engineered ten or so years ago to improve spring-back and to reduce weight slightly. Older jets are a fair bit heavier than the new ones.

Vtach · 05-15-2003, 02:58 PM,

Just take your time and make sure that the spring length will not be too loose or too snug for your feet in the pocket. Unless you have flipper feet like Chris ;D

I had problems initially using the Turtle fins without ankle weights but that was in shallower water and I may have been a bit overweighted. I used ankle weights last weekend in Door and had no problems at all. Gonna try some fine tuning yet before I'm ready to ditch the ankle weights.