Continuous Webbed Harness

[dj793]

I agree with the difficulty of getting a continuous web harness off. Just spent two days at the Straits....4 dives a day on a boat with no ladder, granted they had a winch to get your equipment out of the water...but getting it off was no easy task. I watch all the divers struggle with it ,putting themselves into positions that would tie a snake into a knot. Some how during these acrobatics I must have rubbed my fairly new nitek dou against the webbing and (they are held on by watch type pins)  one pin came out. If I hadn't had a cinch strape on it I could have been chasing it back down to the Eber Ward, Gotta be a better way. Buying another computer isn't high on my list right now.

[Carvendive]

I think you've hit the mark with this one statement.  If you take a look at the environment you dive in, the conditions, and the person, you'll soon realize that one and only one rig does not work for all dive profiles.  (I'm beginning to feel that DIR is limited to the 18-40 age group.)

I dive a plate wing 1 piece harness.  Personally I have no problem with it.  But...

I'm in that over 50 group and as such require bifocals (if I want to know how much gas I have or what heading I'm on).  I MUST have a long hose on my SPG in order to bring it to where I can read it.  I also use an oversized snap clip on it so that I'm not fighting it or (worse yet) not checking my gas because it's such a pain to clip and unclip.  I digress...

I say that as long as you use a GOOD SS buckle where you actually FEEL the cam lock the webbing, you've done the best you can.  You seem like the type of person who checks their gear and wouldn't hesitate to replace something you feel is at it's half life.

My Puget Sound dive buddy has a problem with both sholders (from birth) that limits his movement.  He CAN NOT get out of his gear in the water.  I see him in pain as he removes his rig on land but he refuses to modify his DIR rig.  Our agreement is that if he need to get out of it - I'll cut him free.  In my opinion, one buckle would eliminate this problem which potentially includes me in a un-necessary increased risk situation.  Is that being a good buddy?

[WICaveDiver]

I have made a few trips to North Florida for technical & cave training, and I have heard numerous discussions about continous, webbed harnesses, and having a buckle on either shoulder to assist with removing the harness. Somthing to consider is during the WKPP when the DIR system was widley adopted by that team they were diving in 72 Deg. water. When I was cave diving I had a thin skin under my dry suit, and it was a lot easier to remove the set of doubles. I the great lakes we have a thick bulky insulation system under the dry suit which makes it significantly more difficult for me to remove my doubles. Hence I have a buckle installed on the left shoulder strap. The buckle allows me to get out of my doubles in a timely matter. Not every diving situation is the same, and we need to analize our configuration for each and every situation. It is prudent to remain some what flexible, and open minded in our gear configuration.

[WIdiver_Paul]

Here, pass around the (locally flavored) Kool-Aid!

PS on a side note, i've "converted" a few others already that saw the way my harnees has a shiny new (Halcyon, even!) buckle on the left shoulder harness underneath the backup light. Works like a charm 

/ appearing on a boat near you soon...

[eric myers]

Beat me up if you want to but I use a plastic quick disconnect on my left shoulder and it is definitely easier to get off!

Now that may not be DIR but sometimes you have to decide for yourself rather than just follow some strict guideline that you don't agree with. People need to be more personally responsible and weigh each decision they make about their gear configuration carefully. Whimsically following a DIR concept without understanding the pros/cons is just useless. Think it through...if this happens then what...how would I respond...is there something I can do to avoid that result...what should I do now.

In my own case, I think it goes like this: if the plastic quick disconnect buckle were to cataclysmically fail during a dive would the rig be divable to effect an appropriate and safe egress? My answer is yes because I still have a belt, a crotch strap and at least one arm. Could I improvise if need be? Yes, I could use a use something like a small landyard or a SS spring clip to hold the two pieces together temporarily.

Basically it comes down to situational awareness and keeping a calm, cool, and collected attitude in the event of a failure of any piece of gear during a dive.

The other piece of advice I have here is...get a f*ing dive ladder!

[WIdiver_Paul]

I'm really pleased with the open mindedness of us Wisconsin divers. I think we're all in agreeance about the harness disconnect issue. Who can argue with wisdom? If those warm water divers have an issue with it, let 'em come up here in our frigid waters and take a stab at it themselves, I say.

Dive Ladders are great, but not always possible or practical for every craft. to get out with doubles on your back safely, you really need that heavy duty tree or a platform. This isn't usually possible with the boats that non-Charter-owners can afford. I kind of like being able to dive anywhere, anytime and on any boat like this anyhow.

Gotta get back to work to earn money to pay for all this dive shiat, good luck all!

[divbum]

I'm really pleased with the open mindedness of us Wisconsin divers. I think we're all in agreeance about the harness disconnect issue. Who can argue with wisdom? If those warm water divers have an issue with it, let 'em come up here in our frigid waters and take a stab at it themselves, I say.

[/quote]

I highly doubt we are all in agreeance.....
From your intial post you were committed to adding a buckle and you did...
That is what we choose not to argue with.

[Omicron]

I think this situation highlights the difference in between true DIR (as in GUE trained) diving and the Hogarthian philosophy that many of us use.  While DIR is very strict in it's choice of configuration and technique, the Hogarthian philosophy is more of what most of use - we minimize the gear we need to carry and customize the gear we do carry and use to the situation that we are diving in.

When cave diving, I am very strict about how my gear is and how I wear it.  If I don't need it, I don't take it.  If I need it, I carry a backup (or two).  When diving other environments, my configuration stays similar - backplate, backup lights, two first stages, long hose, etc, etc.  But I may not carry everything I need in a cave, and I do configure things differently.  I don't need line arrows and multiple safety reels when doing open water dives.

I was just re-reading "Blueprint For Survival" by Sheck Exley, describing the fundamental rules of save cave diving and came across this quote in the foreword:

"These procedures have been the author's "blueprint for survival" for an unprecedented 2000 cave dives, and they'll work for you too.  However, please keep in mind that the procedures described herein are merely the basics, and are applicable only to cave diving in Florida:  cave diving conditions in other states can vary considerably and may require different procedures".

It's a good point to keep in mind.

[matt t.]

I highly doubt we are all in agreeance.....
From your intial post you were committed to adding a buckle and you did...
That is what we choose not to argue with.

Amen brother ......

[Vtach]

I was going to stay quiet on this one...so much for that. ;D  For starters, I am not going to tell anyone how to rig their gear.   This is my opinion on what is best and why I choose not to agree with some of the ideas expressed in this thread.  I will not reconfigure my harness for the sole purpose of making it easier to get out of at the surface.  I've tried it in the past and it did prove to fail.  By adding any sort of buckle to connect or hold two pieces of webbing together you are adding a possible failure point.  Given the nature of "technical" diving (deco, overhead) an individual is relatively task loaded.  Obviously training, practice and routine make our ability to handle this type of loading more effective and easier.  Now add an equipment failure to this equation and you are left trying to manage a dive that is already task loaded to begin with.  Now is a harness buckle failure going to kill you?  I agree with most here that this is not likely.  What will get you killed is the downward spiral that happens when a small problem occurs in an already task loaded situation and creates multiple larger problems that become very difficult to manage effectively.  At this point tunnel vision ensues and the primary focus necessary for managing an already difficult dive is lost.  When you lose this focus you stop remaining calm, forget about your SAC rate, neglect to monitor your gas supply, lose track of your surroundings.......and the spiral continues...  All this for the sake of making it easier to get out of your harness at the surface?  Not for me.
If I am having problems with a skill such as this, (different skills for different dives), I will go out and practice those skills with a buddy until I am proficient.  This also goes for safety at the surface.  If I am proficent at doffing gear in open water, I shouldn't have to worry about gear removal issues.  Adding failure points because I am not proficient is no longer an option for me.  Been there done that..no more.

It's quite possible that Paul was referring to the agreement of all that posted so.  If that was not the case, I do not want silence to equal agreement on this topic.  Ultimately, if you are happy with the choice of adding a shoulder buckle, great.  I won't and it's not because GI3 says so.  It's because it makes sense and works for me.