Recreationall TRIMIX

[FreediveWI]

I just read on another list that IANTD is finally coming out with a recreational, no deco diving, trimix course. I imagine that this is to try and compete with the one that GUE has had out for some time.

It uses a 30/30 mix on dives down to 130'. This gives you the benfits on nitrox and helium- longer dives and a clear head.

30/30 is also a nice gas for cold water because you can tune your regualtors down so they don't freeflow on ice dives but you never notice the difference- acutally they breath better because of the size of the gas molocule. ;D

Now how long will it take for TDI and PADI to catch up on that one.

BTW: IANTD also offers freediving courses which no one else will touch yet. PADI could, if they wanted to, since they have just hired Mandy-Rae Cruickshank to work at their world headquarters, but the last time I talked to someone there they had no interest.

Jon

[scubert]

Don't you think trimix for recreational diving is a bit silly? It seems like technology for technologies sake. Nitrox is perfectly suited to recreational depths and I think probably a bit more forgiving than trimix. I haven't taken the course, but from reading, I would assume that the rapid rate of tissue on/off gassing of helium could lead to the 'recreational' diver getting 'helium-bent' a lot more easily than they could on air/EAN. Especially if the course is designed to be 'no stop'.
I also imagine that the max bottom times will not improve much over nitrox when you have to worry about tissue loading helium.
Also seems like kind of expensive fills for a 35min dive to 100' +/-.

Please correct me if I'm figuring this wrong, as I'm not a trimix diver yet :'( I can't wait to take the course, but when I do it will be for extended range diving, with deco stops.

[FreediveWI]

Maybe Gert will pop in here and give his opinion too. I have been bugging him to rset up a GUE recreational trimix class here in the fall- right after his next DIR-F class. There is a need outthere that no other shop is taking seriously.

You would be amazed at all of the little details you miss at 100' when you don't think that there is any way you could be narked. This gas, triox, is really great for those dives in the 100'-130' range. It becomes really important when people start entering overhead enviroments- like shipwrecks!

You get all the benefits of a clear head, which you don't even know is a problem if you have never tried it, and the increased no-deco time. Getting bent can happen just as easy on air, or nitrox, if you don't keep your ascent under control.

There is a lot of misinformation out there about trimix right now- just like there was about nitrox 10-12 years ago. Now everyone dives nitrox and doesn't think twice about it. Triox, and trimix, will be coming down that same road in the next 10 years. IF you have the correct gas analyzers and the deco software it really isn't and tricky as people make it out to be.

I am sure that you'll get the chest-beaters out there who don't think their narked at 100' becasue their so tough, but I have done air dives to more than twice that depth and thought I was just fine too. It wasn't until I actually went down with a CLEAR head that I realized how much I was missing- like the fact that most of the deep wrecks off of Milwaukee aren't really all that neat because they have been stripped clean of anything cool.

I have even dove it on the Willy, which is normally just a snorkel dive for me, and have seen all kinds of little details down in the engine room that I had never noticed in my hundereds of air dives on her.

You won't know if you don't try and this would be a great course to take without having to invest in stage bottles and other trinkets needed to make deeper trimix dives.

Jon

[Omicron]

I brought this topic up on Scubaboard, and WOW was there a bit of negativity on the whole idea. It was generally all along the lines of "They don't need to be giving the diving simpletons a card to use Trimix, they'll just hurt themselves, bluster, bluster, etc".

It seems that there are quite a few people out there that have a pretty strong opinion about it.

Honestly, if one were to use trimix for a NON decompression dive, how difficult would it be? No stage bottles...no deco ceilings....besides knowing how to work a little bit more involved tables would there be a lot to it?

Jon - my knowledge of mix is limited...you being an instructor, am I somewhat correct in my assumptions?

[Vtach]

HMMMM, boy does this sound familiar. A few years ago there was a similiar thing being banged around like a red headed step child.......HMMMMM.......can't seem to remember....... OH YEAH! It was NITROX! Of course we know how dangerous that is based on the number of fatalities we see on a regular basis in the dive community. I think that one of the big problems is that people are too concerned with having their egos bruised because now John and Jane recreational diver are taking their precious mixed gas cert and turning it from a hard core image into a fuzzy cuddly safe recreational gas. There are quite a few people out there that get Trimix/Deco certified just so they can puff out their chest a bit and say "I'm better than you because I have this card......" This is by no means intended to offend the serious divers who pursue this training for a logical specific reason such as cave, wreck, deep exploration etc.....I am merely pointing in the general direction of the "egotistically challenged" where the primary goal is to elevate themselve above the crowd without using logical thinking. I think the key point to remember regarding this topic is that anything that can make diving safer whether its through equipment, gases or training is a benefit to everyone as long as its used correctly.

[Omicron]

Hey Todd,

That was kind of my opinion too. I wasn't diving when Nitrox was new, but from what I've heard/read it seems that there were HUGE arguments about teaching Nitrox to us little 'ol rec divers.

I mean - you can use Nitrox in different ways...I can use Nitrox on a dive to extend my bottom time down to 120-130 feet, but a deco diver can use Eanx50 to shorten his/her deco stops. Theoretically mix could be used in the same way...(at least I think).

[FreediveWI]

When nitrox first came out it ws called "The Devil's Gas" and was banned from the DEMA show and entire islands- like the Caymans.

I finally quit working at one shop because I wasn't even allowed to mention the word of the sales floor of the owner's shop. He would also give out all kinds of wrong information to people about it and hated it when I corrected him- nitrox is a deep diving gas :
Now, of course, that shop, and almost every other one around here, offers nitrox.

When I first got certified in nitrox there were all kinds of hoops to jump through. Now you can get a card in an afternoon. When you go to the islands everyone is diving it- not just the tekkies.

Trimix is the same way. I had been trying to take a trimix course since the early 90's. Just trying to track down someone was a pain. Then, finding a quality instructor was another problem- steel stages and I have to buy Posidens just to take your class, are you nuts?? Now there are a few shops that are running trimix classes and offering trimix fills. This will only increase as other shops jump on board.

As it turned out, taking a trimix course was just a bunch of hoops to jump through to get a card. If you know how to control you bouyancy, and rig you gear right, it isn't that complicated. I know that flies in the face of what some of these people are telling you, but it isn't that hard to do.

I predict that triox, recreational trimix, will be almost as common in 10 years as nitrox is today. Right now GUE and IANTD have recreational trimix classes out. How long do you think it will be before TDI and PADI join them? Actually, PADI is coming out with their trimix course this summer. They still didn't have all of the details worked out the last time I talked to them, but they hope to have some system in place soon.

In other parts of the country the dive shops seem to be a lot more informed on the latest thigs in diving- just check out the MNSCUBA board to see what I mean. This area always takes a little bit longer to catch up.

Don't let anybody try and tell you how difficult it is. As long as you have good control of your bouyancy, trimix will make your diving safer, not more dangerous.

One of the biggest things that has come along in the last few years to make trimix safer is the Atmoix Helium Analyzer sold by Diverite. It is now possible to know exactly what your breathing, which wasn't always the case.

Jon

[Omicron]

That's kind of what I figured....

Wow - PADI offering a Trimix class...heh.

Now THAT is going to be fun to watch on the discussion boards.

Honestly though, I would love that. To have the benefit of using trimix on some of the deeper dives that I do without having to do a 5 hour deco dive would be awesome.

[LKunze]

This just up on the mnscuba.com site. Follow the link to the thread over there.

[Omicron]

Wow...that is indeed tempting. I would like to see the classes MOD extended a little bit though, but still, that is encouraging to see this sort of thing.